When bloggers battles bloggers in a puddle with a paddle its called a... Sorry, that was a Fox in Socks moment...
Since there has been some blog bashing going on, I thought I would go on over to Time's blog and bring the argument, and some of my own questions, right on over to the horse's mouth. Normally I stay out of stuff like this, but sometimes I can't help myself, and his or her antics were actually starting to get on my nerves. I can't stand when blanket or unjustified accusations are made, or generalities are painted with a broad brush. If nothing else, he or she will take their argumentative nature to a blog where it is accepted a bit better. I am nowhere near as kind and patient as Enigma - which in my opinion means I'm more than happy to take on an argument and hash it out until its old news. With all of Time's cries of fascist censorship on other blogs I will be interested to see if my comment is even posted on Time, as comment moderation has been enabled (go figure ;)) If it is never posted, this is what I said:
I'm sorry, but could you please prove, with provided links and examples of their speech and posts, that any of these posters are promoting hate, fascism and overall dishonesty with regards to their opinions and current events? Because I haven't seen it, and I have been reading carefully. And don't even go on about the comment moderation, because I see you have it on as well.
What I see are people making connections between Bush and cronies and Nazi Germany, the socio-economic climate, political regressions, restrictions and abuse of power in government, occupations of foreign countries, the scapegoating of other races/nationalities and cultures. Which are all eerily reminiscent of Germany just prior and up to the time period that most people refer to as "Nazi Germany". As well as economic tactics and mistakes that are reminiscent of pre Great Depression in the states, right around the same time period.
What I don't see are people (on these blogs in particular) saying that Bush, the person, is a carbon copy of Hitler, the person. His politics however, are right in line with Hitler's.
History is indeed repeating itself, and Bush and Cronies have indeed trampled on the Constitution far more than Nixon ever did. Nixon didn't dare overturn the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 - enabling the government to occupy its own country like an enemy state if the "Decider" so chooses to use such force. That in and of itself should scare the wits out of everyone - because that is a move directly in lock step with any fascist dictator, including Hitler.
But here, if you don't think there are similarities, or you're still not sure what people are talking about go to:
Fascist America in 10 Easy Steps by Naomi Wolf - then follow the leads and look for yourself.
But for goodness sake, is it at all possible for you to let the rest of us have our opinions, as they are, without constantly posting profanity and insults? if you don't like what people are saying, its your right to not listen. If you want to debate, then fine - but your points have gone from fairly decent (as seen on your blog) to ad hominem abusives, which typically don't fly and get deleted.
Lets see what unfold, shall we?
11 comments:
Good post and good to call out the one who seeks to harrass.
I just can't help myself Larry....
Good job. It's time he/she be stopped.
"If you want to debate, that's fine"....
A little hard to do with those who practice the fascism of censorship (obviously insincere).
Now that you all feel so good about yourselves - all based on false facts -I laugh when you cry for the monks , or claim to be seekers of peace, or truth.
And your attitude contacting me, and your words of "victory" here.
It's all fun and games for you, well I like to have fun too, and I will be around.
By the way reread my first two comments on Enigma's blog and tell my why I was out of line.
Because I would not want to be associated with those who think Bush is Hitler? I didn't even accuse anyone of that - I only said that on a coalition blog you would have to deal with those ideas, and worse.
Now that I know you all practice fascism, FUCK YOU
Where does that come from - I don't need to put up with the censorship from mental midgets, haters, fascists, liars, hypocrites, and worse.
So go back to thinking your so superior, I'll be around, just for fun.
Oh, that's right you can't check what I said on the two comments before Enigma started deleting my comments, because she deleted those also.
Your still wrong about your Hitler comparisons. Seems like, similar to, close to, BULLSHIT. You have a total lack of what Hitler did, or what he did to MILLIONS of people, just like the uneducated to posture that they know, what they don't know.
Google all the black helicopter, space alien, nut jobs you want - it's not only not proof - it's paranoid BULLSHIT. I've read all of it. Bush family put Hitler in power, Bush family financed Hitler, Bush killed JFK, how stupid are you IDIOTS?
Wow, that was a well thought out response. Oh wait - no it wasn't.
I asked you to prove specific claims you've made. You have failed miserably in doing so. I said nothing about your original comments on another blog, only your remarks on your blog and the ad hominem attacks following the original remarks on Watergate Summer - which I have read. Most stated something along the lines of "You fascist Bitch" "Fucking idiots" and so on.
You have done nothing to prove, sustain or otherwise make your assertions viable.
In fact, take away your profaine language and abusives and you have:
"By the way reread my first two comments on Enigma's blog and tell my why I was out of line.
Because I would not want to be associated with those who think Bush is Hitler? I didn't even accuse anyone of that - I only said that on a coalition blog you would have to deal with those ideas, and worse.
Oh, that's right you can't check what I said on the two comments before Enigma started deleting my comments, because she deleted those also.
Your still wrong about your Hitler comparisons."
This isn't what one calls an overly strong debate point.
However, if you can keep the swearing to a minimum, I am more than happy to let your comments stand. As you can see, I do not use comment moderation.
That said of course, you can believe that you aren't losing your freedoms if you want to, but I just read that security cameras were being installed in Highland Square and Copely roads to "assist" police officers. Yeah right.
Thats in your back yard, is it not? I'd be worried if I were you. My city just voted down a proposal for a similar plan, and rightfully so.
anok...
You can not get through to someone who believes that spying on ones own citizens, arresting and holding anyone without the right to a lawyer or a court hearing, torturing people to the point of even killing them is justified as they do not believe in what our forefathers fought, spilled their blood for and even died for.
These type of people will always find justification in the very deeds our forefathers fought to free us from.
These people have no souls and if they think themselves Christians than they don't follow the same Jesus I do and no they are not Christians.
In fact they give Christianity a bad name and are no different the the religious fanatics were suppose to be fighting over in Afghanistan.
There the American Taliban and like their Middle Eastern Brethen are the scourge of all that is good. Black in Heart and Soul.
God Bless.
Hey Anon...don't hold back now! LOL.
Like I said in my post below, some people get it, some people don't.
You know, my mother is like that. If she were to decide that the world was flat - there wouldn't be any amount of proof that could convince her otherwise. You could put her disbelieving butt in a spaceship and fly her around the Earth and she would still tell you it was flat.
Some people are just like that. Although I have to laugh - over at Time's blog he or she is now ranting about peace bloggers this and that...I'm not a peace blogger LOL! I oppose this war - but make no mistake I'm not a peacenik by any stretch of the imagination. And the constant rants about Hillary Clinton, I'm an anarchist baby! That means I don't like democrats either!
(particularly not ones whose campaigns have been bought and paid for by the HMO's that will lobby heavily to prevent a decent healthcare bill).
The assumptions people make are just so funny to me. Such is life.
Specific claims to what? That Bush is not a Hitler? As got democracy would say, Google it you'll get 100 posts proving how stupid that claim is. I have yet to see any proof from any of you that he is like Hitler.
I have no clue what area you are talking about, but most all security cameras are put there by a company, not the government.
It's amazing that you think the government cares what you do all day. Just a little paranoid? Since you are an anarchist, maybe the government has good reason to keep an eye on you. I doubt it though. Your simply not as important as you think you are.
I too am friendly in kind, that's not what I get from you or your friends, so I fail to see why you would expect friendliness if you don't give friendliness. What is your surprise at my reaction to dishonesty and censorship?
Paranoid gives a long list of things I'm supposed to be for. All of which are lies, no surprise since he doesn't know me or bother to read my blog to find out.
He also wishes my early death, a great thought from a "Christian." His hate is flowing like a Nazi, yet he calls himself a Christian. Just as fake as his claim that he knows me. He claims I'm a terrorist. Should I respond by blessing him? FUCK that.
Time, I will get back to answering your comment just as soon as I have more time. My husband is only home 2-3 days per week, and when he is home my time is spent with him.
Tomorrow night I know I will have all the time in the world to respond. Thanks for being patient.
Same goes for readers of my blog!
Time, I will be responding in a quote/respond format. Your comments will be in bold mine will be in plain text.
Specific claims to what?
I have asked you to prove your claims that bloggers such as Enigma and Anon are spreading messages of hate and fascism. Everything you posted in the first paragraph of your blog re-post about this whole issue.
That Bush is not a Hitler? [...] Google it you'll get 100 posts proving how stupid that claim is.
I can't help but comment on the phrasing of this sentiment. The way its written, I couldn't agree with you more - it is stupid to claim that Bush or his politics aren't like Hitler's. But I understand what you were trying to say, and I am being persnickety. I just can't help but wonder though...perhaps Freud was right after all.
I have no clue what area you are talking about, but most all security cameras are put there by a company, not the government.
I was not speaking of company owned security cameras - such as a Walmart parking lot camera or a Bank of America ATM camera. I am speaking about cameras being installed on city streets, by local government for use by the police department for the purpose of surveillance. To say you don't know what I am talking about is disingenuous at best. You know full well that many places now have "city cam's" - surveillance of your privacy at your expense. Here is an article about it, in case you didn't already know. Todays Milwaukee 4
It's amazing that you think the government cares what you do all day. Just a little paranoid?
Well, actually I'm not. This is what happens when an Anarchist goes to a protest. Some pro-Bush crony sees you, tries to ID you, and reports you to the FBI and local authorities. You are then watched, and sometimes harassed. I should know, my husband and I were both reported - and have been under surveillance on a semi-constant basis since the beginning of the year. Thankfully, it has died off some. I guess someone finally realized that it is dumb to watch law abiding citizens all day long for no reason. But just for poo and cookies, lets take a look at the definition of paranoia:
1. Psychiatry. a mental disorder characterized by systematized delusions and the projection of personal conflicts, which are ascribed to the supposed hostility of others, sometimes progressing to disturbances of consciousness and aggressive acts believed to be performed in self-defense or as a mission.
2. baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.
I can see the first definition applying to someone here on the blogosphere. (hint: psst, its not me!)
The second definition is what you are characterizing me as. All I have to say is, its only paranoia if its baseless - too bad my claims are not ;)
Since you are an anarchist, maybe the government has good reason to keep an eye on you.
Now thats the kind of attitude that got us on "the list" in the first place. Oooh the big bad Anarchists. Watch out! We like to hide in closets and under beds jumping out from time to time to scare old men and house cats!
I doubt it though. Your simply not as important as you think you are.
I agree with you. We are normal, boring people not deserving of surveillance. And that my dear, is the crux of the problem. It isn't my paranoia, its the government's paranoia - so much so that they'd waste time and money watching me take care of my child, run errands, and sew baby clothes...all for what? Because my political views are different from what they'd like to see. This is how it starts.
I too am friendly in kind, that's not what I get from you or your friends, so I fail to see why you would expect friendliness if you don't give friendliness. What is your surprise at my reaction to dishonesty and censorship?
Oh poor Time! Have people been picking on you again?
I have been very friendly with you. If I had been mean, you would have known it, no question. I can't speak for anyone else and their interactions with you, however. As for censorship, there is a debate about what is, and what isn't censorship. I have my own opinions, and that is the fact that your constitutional right to stretch out your arm ends immediately before it hits my nose. Thats is to say - your freedom of speech (which is a fallacy) is only guaranteed for you in certain places, and of certain kinds. You are not free to say whatever you want to - to whom ever you want to - wherever you want to. Workplace sexual harassment laws are example enough of that. However on the internet there is a question of ownership, privacy, and personal space. I would say that on public message boards and chat rooms there would be little censorship, except by the owner of said chat room.
On a blog page however, there is more individual ownership involved, and the "owner" of the blog has a right to moderate the content of their site. Just as I have asked you to refrain from excessive profanity, I would undoubtedly erase a pornographic comment from my blog, or messages that I feel would be offensive to me, or my readers. That is my personal responsibility as the blog "owner" and it shows consideration for the kinds of patrons I wish to come and read my opinions. Had someone come over to your site, and told you not to post your opinions on your own blog - I'd agree with you. This however, is not the case. You sought out someone else's blog, and told the blog owner and regular readers not to post their thoughts and opinions. And yes, I did read some of your comments on Enigma's page before she erased them, and yes - you did exactly what you are accusing me and others of doing. Honestly, if you don't like her blog don't read it. Its a clear cut, simple, easy-to-digest solution. Try it, you might like it.
He also wishes my early death, a great thought from a "Christian." His hate is flowing like a Nazi, yet he calls himself a Christian. Just as fake as his claim that he knows me. He claims I'm a terrorist. Should I respond by blessing him? FUCK that.
This, my dear, you will have to reconcile with Anon. It has nothing to do with me. Although I have yet to read such comments from Anon - you'll have to provide the proof if you want me to actually believe it.
What was said, and what you think was said are probably two different things entirely.
I will be writing a new blog post shortly, very specifically about the comparison of Bush and Hitler. That said I will make one distinction about my opinions on the matter. I have no doubt in my mind that the politics are similar if not the same in some areas. But I do not pretend to believe that the two men are anything alike. As Evil, Inhumane, Cruel and Deranged as Hitler was - he was also extraordinarily intelligent, well read, and a most excellent and fervent orator.
Bush is an idiot. And a pushover - so much so that he is either too stupid or too crippled by his lack of self esteem to stand up for his country, to stand up for what is right. Instead he allows everyone around him to use him as their personal pawn for financial gain.
Or he is simply indifferent, which in the minds of many, makes him just as Evil as Hitler.
Oh well, I guess the "libtard basher" prefers harassing kind, gentle people trying to have quiet conversations, rather than have a no-holds-barred debate with an outspoken Anarchist.
Perhaps it is a peek into character. Or lack thereof.
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